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  • why Suicide...?

    In a World with so much to offer......What brings people to the point where they think there is nothing....?
    Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

  • #2
    Originally posted by quinner View Post
    In a World with so much to offer......What brings people to the point where they think there is nothing....?
    I've no idea Joe. Utter despair and mental anguish perhap?
    Such is life - Ned Kelly

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    • #3
      The world doesn't offer everybody the same things. Some people lead lives of happiness and plenty others have lives of desperation and want. For some life is so good that death comes all too soon, for others death is a longed for escape from misery. Some will decide to meet death now rather than live an insufferable life and meet death later anyway.

      It is often said that suicide is a selfish act because of the effect it has on those left behind. Perhaps it is selfishness on the survivors part to expect the suicide to continue his/her misery just so they won't be upset? Sometimes you have to do what's right for you and you alone. Who are we to pass judgement? We the lucky ones.

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      • #4
        I see a huge variation in the reasons......but, the same end result...

        That result is so final it allows no time for help....

        Though no a nice thing to be discussed, I believe that it should be well discussed and more out in the open......

        For people to be in such desperate circumstances to even contemplate such a deed must be aware that there is no shame in that.....And help is always so close that it must be discussed with whoever is available in those desperate moments.....
        Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by quinner View Post
          I see a huge variation in the reasons......but, the same end result...

          That result is so final it allows no time for help....

          Though no a nice thing to be discussed, I believe that it should be well discussed and more out in the open......

          For people to be in such desperate circumstances to even contemplate such a deed must be aware that there is no shame in that.....And help is always so close that it must be discussed with whoever is available in those desperate moments.....
          I think you hit the nail on the head, inadvertently, when you said that people contemplating suicide "must be aware that there is no shame in that....And help is always so close that it must be discussed" etc......I think that in those "desperate moments" there is such a confusion of thoughts and feelings, such a lack of objectivity and rationality, that it may be impossible for the person concerned to discuss it with anyone.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
            I think you hit the nail on the head, inadvertently, when you said that people contemplating suicide "must be aware that there is no shame in that....And help is always so close that it must be discussed" etc......I think that in those "desperate moments" there is such a confusion of thoughts and feelings, such a lack of objectivity and rationality, that it may be impossible for the person concerned to discuss it with anyone.

            Thanks Katie.....

            I believe the very act of killing yourself is a rational decision. Probably in most cases, well thought out and deliberately carried out.

            It is what makes the person come to that decision that can be changed. Maybe the feeling that there is nobody available that can help, is the trigger for the rational decision.
            Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by quinner View Post
              Thanks Katie.....

              I believe the very act of killing yourself is a rational decision. Probably in most cases, well thought out and deliberately carried out.

              It is what makes the person come to that decision that can be changed. Maybe the feeling that there is nobody available that can help, is the trigger for the rational decision.
              I think that when you've reached the point where you're considering suicide, you've pretty much decided that you're a worthless person, and that no-one will understand your feelings, no matter how much care and counselling you might receive......that perhaps people will be better off without you, so that you don't see it as the "selfish act" some people believe it to be. What I'm saying is that if someone has reached the point where they are thinking of, and possibly planning, the end of their life, all rational thought has gone out of the window......all they see is an end to their suffering.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                I think that when you've reached the point where you're considering suicide, you've pretty much decided that you're a worthless person, and that no-one will understand your feelings, no matter how much care and counselling you might receive......that perhaps people will be better off without you, so that you don't see it as the "selfish act" some people believe it to be. What I'm saying is that if someone has reached the point where they are thinking of, and possibly planning, the end of their life, all rational thought has gone out of the window......all they see is an end to their suffering.
                I agree, would like to know if we can learn how to see what is happening before that point of no return for the person.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                  I think that when you've reached the point where you're considering suicide, you've pretty much decided that you're a worthless person, and that no-one will understand your feelings, no matter how much care and counselling you might receive......that perhaps people will be better off without you, so that you don't see it as the "selfish act" some people believe it to be. What I'm saying is that if someone has reached the point where they are thinking of, and possibly planning, the end of their life, all rational thought has gone out of the window......all they see is an end to their suffering.
                  Death does no occur until the very last second.......People, I believe do not make their choice then. I believe, it may take hours, days, weeks, even months. How many blank wall have they come up against to make the decision final......
                  I am of the opinion that they believe that only certain things or people can help with their problem, I would like to see people been made aware that everybody may be able to help.
                  Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by quinner View Post
                    Death does no occur until the very last second.......People, I believe do not make their choice then. I believe, it may take hours, days, weeks, even months. How many blank wall have they come up against to make the decision final......
                    I am of the opinion that they believe that only certain things or people can help with their problem, I would like to see people been made aware that everybody may be able to help.
                    You're missing the fundamental point that when people are on the edge of suicide they are not thinking rationally......your opening post is about how much the world has to offer....to someone who is severely depressed, that is meaningless.....they see nothing but work, work, work, broken this and that (washing machines, toilet flushes, rooftiles, fences)......at a time when they are least able to cope with it........they hate themselves but they have to carry on with the day-to-day stuff........no wonder they want to bow out.

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                    • #11
                      I believe that suicide is very selfish - but not in a nefarious way. I think a person doesn't just wake up one day and say "I think I'll kill myself". It's a process. The weight of depression is more than some can bear. The thought creeps in and out of their head for a very long time before the pain becomes too much and all they can think about is making it stop. They are unable to think about those that will be left behind. They are unable to rationalize that nothing lasts forever. It's the here and now... and in that moment when the pain has piled so high and deep that there is no light, no love, no joy, no future, they make it stop. It's a moment when they are the only person in the world and they just can't do it anymore.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eileen View Post
                        I believe that suicide is very selfish - but not in a nefarious way. I think a person doesn't just wake up one day and say "I think I'll kill myself". It's a process. The weight of depression is more than some can bear. The thought creeps in and out of their head for a very long time before the pain becomes too much and all they can think about is making it stop. They are unable to think about those that will be left behind. They are unable to rationalize that nothing lasts forever. It's the here and now... and in that moment when the pain has piled so high and deep that there is no light, no love, no joy, no future, they make it stop. It's a moment when they are the only person in the world and they just can't do it anymore.
                        I think that's just it Eileen......the pain has become so much that ordinary, everyday pleasures are meaningless......if you are depressed, nothing matters; you find no joy in anything......people can spout platitudes about the meaning of life, how wonderful it is to hear a robin sing, watch a flower grow, hear a newborn baby cry......to someone who is depressed, all that means nothing.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Eileen View Post
                          I believe that suicide is very selfish - but not in a nefarious way. I think a person doesn't just wake up one day and say "I think I'll kill myself". It's a process. The weight of depression is more than some can bear. The thought creeps in and out of their head for a very long time before the pain becomes too much and all they can think about is making it stop. They are unable to think about those that will be left behind. They are unable to rationalize that nothing lasts forever. It's the here and now... and in that moment when the pain has piled so high and deep that there is no light, no love, no joy, no future, they make it stop. It's a moment when they are the only person in the world and they just can't do it anymore.
                          I think on the surface it may appear that way, but I'm sure many suicides really do believe (or have convinced themselves) that their family and friends will be better off without them. I doubt if a suicide is thinking rationally at all. Until you've dealt with depression yourself, you have no idea of the depth of despair and irrational thought.
                          Such is life - Ned Kelly

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by boxman View Post
                            I think on the surface it may appear that way, but I'm sure many suicides really do believe (or have convinced themselves) that their family and friends will be better off without them. I doubt if a suicide is thinking rationally at all. Until you've dealt with depression yourself, you have no idea of the depth of despair and irrational thought.
                            a

                            I think that is exactly what Eileen was saying, Dave. Most people would see the issue from an objective viewpoint: you feel you've messed up, been a failure with your marriage, your kids, your finances, but all these things can be rectified.......to the depressed person, all these failures are due to the ineptitude of themselves.....they are at fault, they are responsible....it is down to self-esteem.
                            Last edited by KatieMorag; 20-08-2014, 03:10 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I agree with Katie..as you replied to quinner.." they have so much going on in their lives" Does that mean money and possessions, and success.? In Robin Williams case I think it was a combination of many issues, failed marriages, drug abuse, who knows how many other issues, then onset of Parkinsons which would have perhaps devastated him. I made it clear years ago on the other forum I was suffering from depression, and I can tell you I was thinking my life was meaningless. I can understand why people would think of dying by their own hand completely. I got help, but it is hard to find, as most people "say" they understand depression, and there is no end of posts on depression on facebook, but in reality no one wants to know a sad person. I find it hard to believe anyone on this forum has not encountered people with depression.
                              today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

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