Descendants of James Alexander Cain and Edith Mary Miller

[Tinto]

Hello Dublin Listers,

Thank you for admitting me to the Forum. This is my first venture in Irish family research as I have only recently discovered that the cousin of my Scottish grandmother, Mary Parker Cundill, died in Dublin in 1894:

Death notice for Mary in Dublin Daily Express, 12 July 1894:
MILLER -- July 9, at Cork street Hospital, Mary Cundill, aged 36, the beloved wife of David Miller, Jewel-case maker, late of 18 Raymond street, South Circular road, deeply regretted by a sorrowing family. Funeral from Hospital at 9 30 this (Thursday) morning for Mount Jerome.
Notes: Cause of death was Typhoid Fever.

1901 Irish Census shows:
27 Vernon Street, Wood Quay, St. Peter's Parish, Dublin
Wilson Race, Head of Family, Church of England, Read & Write, 31, M, Jeweller's Shop Assist., Married, England
Esther Race, wife, Church of England, Read & Write, 32, F, Married, England
Edward Race, son, Church of Ireland, 6, M, Scholar, Not married, Dublin
Florence Race, daughter, Church of Ireland, 5, F, Scholar, Not married, Dublin
Ethel Race, daughter, Church of Ireland, 4, F, Scholar, Not married, Dublin
David Miller, Boarder, Presbyterian, Read and Write, 41, M, Jewel Case Maker, Widower, Scotland
William G. Simmonds, Boarder, Church of England, 25, M, Clock Maker, Not married, England.
Notes: David Miller died in 1918, in London.

1901 Irish Census
Cottage Home for Little Children, Tivoli Road, Kingstown, Dublin
Included in 47 children are:
Marjory Miller aged 7, Inmate, birth place not known (was actually Dublin)
Edith Miller, aged 12, Inmate, birth place not known (was actually London)
Notes: Confirmed in the Cottage Home records that these are sisters.

Sadly, Marjory MILLER died while employed at the Cottage Home in 1917

but Edith Mary MILLER married James Alexander CAIN, School Board Officer, on 15 July 1914 at St Paul's Church, Dublin (Church of Ireland).

I would be grateful for any help in tracing this couple and finding descendants to bring closure to this sad story.

Thanks,

John

[Tinto]

It seems that James and Edith went to live in Scotland after their marriage.

1911 Scottish Census
35 Lyle Street, Greenock, Renfrewshire
Mrs. Mary Cain, Head, 66, Widow, Ireland
Margaret Cain, daur, 38, Single, Shop Assistant, Grocery, worker, Ireland
Mary Ann Cain, daur, 35, Single, At Home, Ireland
James A. Cain, son, 28, Single, Clerk, Sugar Refinery, Worker, Ireland
Rebecca Cain, daur, 25, Single, Shop Assistant, Grocery, Worker, Greenock, Renfrewshire

James's occupation at time of marriage in 1914, was School Board Officer.
(Marriage Certificate has his address as 35 "Lisle" Street, Greenock, Scotland)

1915, 1920, and 1925 Valuation Rolls have James A. Cain, Tenant, 37 West Stewart Street, Greenock.
1930 Valuation rolls have James A. Cain, Tenant, 27 Columba Street, Greenock

James Alexander William Cain (sic), aged 50, died 12 January 1933 at his home 27 Columba Street, Greenock and his occupation at that time, was School Attendance Officer.
Informant on death certificate was brother-in-law Peter Watson who had married James's sister Margaret in 1915. His address was 42 Wellington Street, Greenock.
Certificate states "Married to Edith Miller" so presumably Edith was alive then.

A search in Scottish records did not show a death for Edith so she may have moved away from Scotland, to Ireland or England?

However, it occurred to me that Edith Cain may have married again and a search in Scottish records produced the following:

Marriage 644/23 00301
29 January 1934 15 Coldingham Avenue, Glasgow After Banns According to the Forms of the Church of Scotland
George Ringland, Storekeeper, Post Office Telegraph Department (Widower) Age 57, Johnstown Cottage, Ballyfermot, Chapelizod, Irish Free State
Edith Mary Miller or Cain (Widow) Age 45, 32 Hawley Road, Falkirk
Thomas Ringland, Farmer (deceased) & Ann Ringland m/s Jelly (deceased)
David Miller, Jewel Case Maker (deceased) & Mary Miller m/s Cundill (deceased)
William Walls, Minister of Yoker Church of Scotland
Vincent Armstrong, 2327 Dumbarton Rd., Yoker. Witness
Annie Armstrong, 2327 Dumbarton Rd., Yoker. Witness
31 January 1934, at Glasgow W. L. Young, Assistant Registrar.

It was back then to the Irish records to look for the Ringland family:

1901 Irish Census
Woodstock Road, Ormeau, Down
Annie Ringland, Head, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 52, F, Housewife, Married, Co. Down
Catherine Ringland, Daughter, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 19, F, Shop assistant Provisions, Not married, Co. Down
Andrew Ringland, Son, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 17, M, boiler Maker, Not married, Co. Down
George Ringland, Son, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 25, M, Telegraph Operater, Married, Co. Down
Dinna Ringland, Daughter, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 24, F, Housewife, Married, Belfast
Herbert Ringland, Grandson, Presbyterian, 6mths, Belfast
Notes: Dinna Ringland, Daughter, is actually Diana Ringland, Daughter-in-law.

1911 Irish Census
Murtagh Road, Arran Quay, Dublin
George Ringland, Head of Family, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 35, Storeman 3rd Class Stores Dept., GPO, Married, Co. Down
Diana Ringland, Wife, Church of Ireland, 34, Married, Married 12 years, 4 children born, 4 still alive, Co. Antrim
Herbert Ringland, Son, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 11, Single, Co. Antrim
Clara Ringland, Daughter, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 10, Single, Co. Down
Ann Ringland, Daughter, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 8, Single, Co. Antrim
Aileen Elizabeth Ringland, Daughter, Church of Ireland, Cannot Read, 2, Co. Dublin

It seems that Diana Ringland died in Jan-Mar., 1933, Dublin South, certificate not yet sighted.

I hope someone can tell what happened to George Ringland and Edith Mary Miller or Cain or Ringland.

Thanks,

John

[john doran]

Looks like they moved back to County Down
Here is the Will of George Ringland...with addresses

He died at Bonnyblink Lisdoonan Saintfield Co Down

12 December 1964

Cannot find Edith Mary,s will in Northern Ireland

Will now search Dublin area

[john doran]

No entry for Edith Ringland in Wills in Ireland....

Tried the name Edith (Cain and Miller also)....in Northern Ireland..no entry

Did you see this church entry for the baptism of Margery Miller..(sic)

[john doran]

Also this 1911 census for an Edith Miller

She puts Windsor England as her place of birth

The address was near enough to the childrens home on Tivoli Road

[Tinto]

Hello John,

Thank you very much for all your valuable findings, much appreciated. I did have the 1911 Census record for Edith Miller and I think that is for her although the Windsor place of birth should actually be Islington, London.

I feel that Edith didn't have any children, I couldn't find any in Renfrewshire where she lived with James Alexander Cain.

Her death record is the last piece in this puzzle.

Kind regards,

John

[john doran]

Hello John
You mention thinking that there were no children in marriage......(.miller /cain )

Here is one that may fit the bill...note the name Marjory...and the date of birth..and location

Well within the 9 months after the 1914 marriage of James Cain and Edith Miller..same location

See what you think

[Tinto]

Hello John,
Thank you. You may have struck gold there, certainly worth following up, as Marjory M T Cain's name could well be Marjory (after her aunt) Mary (after both her grandmothers) and Trueman (maiden surname of father's mother Mary Trueman).
I'll send for the certificate and let you know.
John

[Tinto]

Certificate confirmed

Hello John,
To let you know that the birth certificate has arrived and it is indeed for:

Marjory Mary Trueman CAIN, born 20 May 1915, 26 Murtagh St. (sic),
father James Alexander CAIN, 26 Murtagh Rd. (sic)
mother Edith Mary CAIN, formerly MILLER
Profession of father School Board Officer.

Thank you very much for pointing me to this birth index.

I note there are other CAIN births around this time including Mary Elizabeth CAIN, 1917, Dublin North, and Florence CAIN, 1919, Dublin North.

However, I have determined that father James A. CAIN was tenant/occupier at 37 West Stewart Street, Greenock, Scotland in the 1915, 1920 and 1925 Scottish Valuation Rolls so these later births are probably not relevant.

Such appointments as School Board Officer may have been notified in the London Gazette but I have not been able to find one for James Alexander CAIN.

My next task is in tracing baby Marjory Mary Trueman CAIN born 1915.

Thank you again for your help.
Kind Regards,
John

[john doran]

John
Glad that was the right birth cert

No more info so far..apart from a Marjory death in Scotland....1937
And ..............................................a Marjory marriage .....do......1957

I went from 1913 to 1960 in search and ended up with these specific years by elimination
John.

[Tinto]

Hello John,

Thank you for searching for Marjory Cain in Scottish records. I have also looked there, the 1937 death is for an infant and the 1957 marriage is for a Marjory Young Cain to George Davies in Kelvin, Glasgow.
There is also a death in 1980 for a Marjory Cochran Cain or Munro, aged 64, in Glasgow.

Another thought, Marjory Mary Trueman Cain may have taken the surname of her stepfather George Ringland who her mother married in 1934. Marjory would have been 19 at the time.

Kind Regards,
John

[Tinto]

Hello John again,
To let you know another kind person on the Co.Down Forum has found the death date and burial place of Edith Mary RINGLAND:

"Billiongraves.com has a Edith M Ringland buried in Saintfield Parish Church (Church of Ireland) born 1888 died on 5th March 1983 aged 95 yrs along with her headstone picture."

This does bring some sort of closure to this family.

I have also sent for the birth certificate of Mary Elizabeth CAIN, 1917, Dublin North, and death certificate of Florence CAIN, 1919, Dublin North just to be sure.

Kind Regards,
John

[john doran]

John
Thats great....she certainly lived to a grand age
I seen the picture of the headstone ..using info above...
I searched all the surrounding cemeteries for George ,...no luck
Saintfield was the area mentioned in the will of George Ringland
Best Wishes
John

[Tinto]

Thanks, John.
I feel that George Ringland is buried with his first wife Diana and children in Mount Jerome Cemetery, Dublin:

No.6104 Erected by | GEORGE RINGLAND | In | Loving Memory | of | his wife | DIANA RINGLAND | died 18th January 1933 | and their children | HERBERT | died 21st May 1922 | HELEN | died 27th August 1929 | ANNIE | died 16th August 1933 | "Peace Perfect Peace" .
Notes: "HELEN" has been wrongly transcribed. this should be AILEEN.

Kind Regards,
John

[Tinto]

Hello John again,
To let you know another kind person on the Co.Down Forum has found the death date and burial place of Edith Mary RINGLAND:

"Billiongraves.com has a Edith M Ringland buried in Saintfield Parish Church (Church of Ireland) born 1888 died on 5th March 1983 aged 95 yrs along with her headstone picture."

This does bring some sort of closure to this family.

I have also sent for the birth certificate of Mary Elizabeth CAIN, 1917, Dublin North, and death certificate of Florence CAIN, 1919, Dublin North just to be sure.

Kind Regards,
John

Hi John,

To let you know, these certificates have arrived and they prove to be not relevant:

Mary Elizabeth Cain, born 19 November 1917,at Rotunda, father William Cain, Chauffeur, 12 Ormeau Street, Sth Lotts?, mother Lily Cain m/s McLendon.


Florence Cain, died 25 February 1919, at 29 Fortenoy Street, North Dublin, Premature Birth, 10 days old, father Charles Cain, Linesman, 29 Fortenoy Street.

So my family must have moved to Scotland shortly after the birth of Marjory Mary Trueman Cain.

Thank you again for your help in tracing this family.

Kind Regards,
John