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    There are several examples of countries successfully changing the national language; Israel and Singapore spring to mind. Why with all it's supposed national fervour, did the Irish state fail miserably to get the populace to convert to Gaelic? Was it a fotunate thing economically that they did fail?
    Such is life - Ned Kelly

  • #2
    Originally posted by boxman View Post
    There are several examples of countries successfully changing the national language; Israel and Singapore spring to mind. Why with all it's supposed national fervour, did the Irish state fail miserably to get the populace to convert to Gaelic? Was it a fotunate thing economically that they did fail?
    I would say , its the proximity to England and its policies that did it initially Boxy , and they were ably helped in the 20th century by the Christian brothers and fervent Gaelegoirs that decided the best method would be the carrot and the stick but they threw away the carrot .
    Anyway , you are right in the last sentence , it was fortunate economically that it didnt happen . We probably would have spoken english like Barry Fitzgerald only for it and does anyone remember the sneering culchie teachers laughing at the Dublin schoolkids attempts to get around the heavy vowels of the Irish language ?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by boxman View Post
      There are several examples of countries successfully changing the national language; Israel and Singapore spring to mind. Why with all it's supposed national fervour, did the Irish state fail miserably to get the populace to convert to Gaelic? Was it a fotunate thing economically that they did fail?
      Morocco is another country Boxie, and they had a few changes. Originally it would have been Berber and Arabic, then the French outlawed Berber and tolerated Arabic but French was national language, when they left it was back to Arabic officially but Berber still spoken as well.
      Re Gaelic and economy? I won't venture an opinion on that lol

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      • #4
        The fools who thought we should all be speaking Irish and dancing at the crossroads with comely maidens thought that if we didn't already speak it they should beat it into us in primary school.

        But they shot themselves in the foot, because instead of instilling a love of the language into us they beat it out of us... or most of us.

        I was lucky in that my grandparents mostly conversed in Irish so I picked up a cupla focail from them, especially my granny who practically reared me. Though I'm gone a bit rusty now, and the language has changed so much. Point: Ironrod = railway? Where did they get that from?

        As for being a help or hindrance on the economy. I don't think it would have mattered when we remember that only one member of the EU's official language is English. Though Irish is recognised as a EU official language too.
        'Never look down on a person unless you're helping them up'.
        .

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        • #5
          I hated Irish when I was at school not sure why maybe it was the brothers trying to beat it into us. When I see the young kids starting of now in Gael Scoils and then see the older kids coming out knowing Irish I say to myself why was that not around when I was starting as I believe the younger you are the more open your mind is to learning.

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          • #6
            But why do you Irish have to learn your own language in school? Don't you pick it up at home? If not then the language is dead and all they are trying to do in school is artificially reviving it.
            Camouflage

            Stockpile supplies, learn survival skills, pray!

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            • #7
              Cammo did you not know that Ireland was once ruled by the British who speak english so mostly the language was lost except in a few parts of the country. our great grandparents in the most part could not read or write never mind speak Irish so how could they pass on a language that had been lost to them. Some now might remember a few words or phrases we learned in school. It is not dead as you say there are a lot of people who did learn it but the majority did not.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jeangenie View Post
                Cammo did you not know that Ireland was once ruled by the British who speak english so mostly the language was lost except in a few parts of the country. our great grandparents in the most part could not read or write never mind speak Irish so how could they pass on a language that had been lost to them. Some now might remember a few words or phrases we learned in school. It is not dead as you say there are a lot of people who did learn it but the majority did not.
                I am speaking from my own experience, the German communty in the US. We still have whole communties were people still speak German (or French and other languages) among themselves, but we / they all speak English as well. Granted, sadly not as many people speak German nowadays as two generations ago, but we don't seem to have the same problems you folks have with learning/teaching/speaking Irish.
                Camouflage

                Stockpile supplies, learn survival skills, pray!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Riposte
                  I live very close to a Gael Scoil ............ I know dozens of kids who have gone through this school over the last twenty-five years ........ they nearly all got A for Irish in their Leaving Cert. .............. and I never heard one of them speak a syllable of Irish outside school .......... and I brought many of them to and from that school. Their problems started when they went to College where they had to do Maths, Science, History and Geography in English
                  i went to an all gaelic school until i was 15....and later had the fainne..im almost sure i sat some exam to get it.....i probably did cos speaking gaelic was a requirement for getting a job at a bank at the time....anyways turned out i didnt get the bank job...didnt speak gaelic ever....and its NOT like riding a bike...you use it or lose it.....mines somewhere on the road to dublin city from cabra west...but being immersed in gaelic caused me many problems later with other subjects.....(right on raposte)

                  Camou....have you never read a wee bit of irish history???? cos if you did youd know why the irish lost their language mostly.

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                  • #10
                    time....anyways turned out i didnt get the bank job...didnt speak gaelic ever....and its NOT like riding a bike...you use it or lose it.....mines somewhere on the road to dublin city from cabra west..

                    What ? the bike or the Irish language ?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Camouflage View Post
                      I am speaking from my own experience, the German communty in the US. We still have whole communties were people still speak German (or French and other languages) among themselves, but we / they all speak English as well. Granted, sadly not as many people speak German nowadays as two generations ago, but we don't seem to have the same problems you folks have with learning/teaching/speaking Irish.
                      Camo if Mr Hitler had got his way people in England might now be speaking German. Did you ever hear the one about the German bloke in court in Dublin who could not speak English and the judge asked can anyone here speak German and this fella stood up and said I can your honour and the judge said to the fella who stood up "will you ask the German man his name" so the bloke shouted across to the German man "vhat is your name " there was uproar in the court with laughter

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Camouflage View Post
                        I am speaking from my own experience, the German communty in the US. We still have whole communties were people still speak German (or French and other languages) among themselves, but we / they all speak English as well. Granted, sadly not as many people speak German nowadays as two generations ago, but we don't seem to have the same problems you folks have with learning/teaching/speaking Irish.
                        Camo ............ my grandfather taught Irish in early 1900s for a penny a lesson... when very little Irish was spoken in Dublin and it was not taught in the schools. Meanwhile my wife's Grandfather and her father never learned and could never speak a word of Irish. Below are the reasons why Irish declined;

                        In 1366, the Statutes of Kilkenny required that all Englishmen in Ireland retain their English surnames and continue to speak English. After this, various attempts were made to suppress the use of the language by the native Irish. At first these met with little success; when Irish Catholics were forbidden to teach school, illegal schools were opened. Eventually though, the Irish could read the handwriting on the wall. In order to prosper in business or politics, you had to speak English.

                        The Irish language increasingly became associated with poverty and backwardness. In the National School system that was established in 1831, children were beaten with what became known as a 'tally stick' if they were caught speaking Irish. Far from being upset by this, many parents enthusiastically endorsed it, feeling that the future of their children depended on their ability to speak English. Because of this, Ireland experienced a steady decline in native Irish speakers. It has been estimated that there were five million people living in Ireland at the end of the eighteenth century. Of these, two million were exclusively Irish speakers, one and a half million spoke both Irish and English, and one and a half million spoke English exclusively. A hundred years later, there were only about 600,000 Irish speakers left, with only 3.5% under the age of 10 able to speak the language.

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                        • #13
                          Well I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised on Thurday when I bought a new Haier TV here in France. Naturally it was set up to work in French but you could go through the menu and set it up in other lanuages too, including Gaeilge. Not just one or two token words on the menu but the whole menu. I tell you it made my day.

                          For the life of me I can't understand why people like the Banks, who already have the software for the ATMs in Irish for use in the Gaelteacht areas, don't have all their ATMs bilingual. You probably have a better chance of seeing it in Polish before you'd see it in Irish.

                          Just get into the habit of using a single phrase in Irish on a regular basis. Say "go raibh maith agat" instead of "cheers". I hate that, we are being taken over by Coronation Street. Next one says it to me will get the 25th anniversary edition on VHS tape shoved up their arse, no lube.

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                          • #14
                            you feel strongly about that eh........cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            im surprised too the atm machines dont have a gaelic option...but then is ireland officially bi-lingual...???? i dont remember it being....here in canada we are officially bi-lingual......but on a regular basis the kids dont get a good grip of french in the regular public schools...my daughter is bi-lingual having done all her elementary and highschooling in french immersion but shes still had to get a private tutor and sit bi-lingual exams this week to upgrade for her job in the government....

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                            • #15
                              Saw Ted.

                              My son is totally bi-lingual and is set for a career in the Gendarmerie. Not the GardaĆ­ but quite good nevertheless.

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