Genetic illnesses & morality of reproduction

[Lily of Ulster]

Here's a philosophical question, chappies. If both spouses suffer from a disease that is ... rather uncomfortable ... is it morally sound to forfeit reproduction? I'm locking horns with a priest. I keep telling him that I suffer from severe depression, and I don't want to contribute to the population of psychiatric patients. He doesn't accept it. His response is: "Have as many babies as God gives you, and He'll take care of everything." Hate to remind him, God does not run American healthcare system. More and more insurance companies drop behavioural health from their packages. I already have my hands full managing my own symptoms, plus I have to keep a close eye on my son and make sure he doesn't show any signs of ... you know ... Depression is extremely hard to diagnose and treat. It's not a bacterial infection that can be taken care of with a course of antibiotics. This bugger can make your whole life miserable. My question is, wouldn't it be selfish to have children, knowing in advance that there is a big chance they might inherit your disorder. Sometimes I feel like apologizing to my son for having given birth to him. Maybe I'm overreacting here?

[cogito]

Here's a philosophical question, chappies. If both spouses suffer from a disease that is ... rather uncomfortable ... is it morally sound to forfeit reproduction? I'm locking horns with a priest. I keep telling him that I suffer from severe depression, and I don't want to contribute to the population of psychiatric patients. He doesn't accept it. His response is: "Have as many babies as God gives you, and He'll take care of everything." Hate to remind him, God does not run American healthcare system. More and more insurance companies drop behavioural health from their packages. I already have my hands full managing my own symptoms, plus I have to keep a close eye on my son and make sure he doesn't show any signs of ... you know ... Depression is extremely hard to diagnose and treat. It's not a bacterial infection that can be taken care of with a course of antibiotics. This bugger can make your whole life miserable. My question is, wouldn't it be selfish to have children, knowing in advance that there is a big chance they might inherit your disorder. Sometimes I feel like apologizing to my son for having given birth to him. Maybe I'm overreacting here?

The philosophical answer to your philosophical question Mairin might be... if you consider life to be something you inflict on your children - rather than a gift - then indeed it might be morally questionable to have a family... An outsider though, might consider that you have managed to combine a loving family with a successful and creative career - is there any reason to suppose your son will not achieve at least as much ? And if - as appears to be the case - you have managed to give him a happy childhood - is that not as much as any of us can hope for - and a gift in itself for parent and child. You have managed all that, despite your depression - and should cut yourself some slack for what you've already achieved and forget about what's 'morally sound'...

[Lily of Ulster]

It's interesting ... I was having this conversation with me biological Da. And he said that life is generally a good thing, a gift, an opportunity. I tend to view life as an imposition, a test followed by punishment, some sort of practical joke. I guess, you can regard life as a "gift", but it doesn't specify if the gift is asked for or not. Anyway, I digress. I guess I have trouble understanding people who have serious medical conditions, and they still have children. A few years ago they showed a special on TV about a woman who kept having babies with a form of rare muscular dystrophy. They kept dying before reaching their 10th birthday. And she kept having them, because she enjoyed the experience of motherhood, even though she knew the babies were doomed. That just perplexed me. Then there was another woman who was deaf. Her husband was deaf too. All their kids were deaf. And she said that to someone who has hearing, being deaf might seem like a terrible thing, but for someone who's been deaf from birth, it's just "normal" state. I guess you can't always predict if your child is going to be healthy. Sometimes nature gives us unpleasant surprises. Genetic mutations happen out of the blue. And no, I don't believe in "master race" or anything like that. Please don't think for a moment that I encourage destruction of unhealthy individuals. One of my pals already accused me of having a Nazi mentality. But I cannot for the life of me understand people with severe dominant genetic illnesses who opt for biological parenthood, knowing that there is a very, very, very high chance that the kids will inherit the disease. We don't have control over being born, but we do have control over our own reproductive future. I really don't want to see another depressed member of my family.

[Mykidsmom]

well i think life is a gift.....but everyone wouldnt agree with me...and in fact ive experienced the loss of several people i knew well due to suicide...so if i could morph back to my younger days...know then what i do now if i suffered from severe depression and had a family history of it would i have kids...not on your nelly..id be totally terrified id pass the gene on and would never risk it...

now experiencing health problems similar to my mother and her family...autoimmune disease, and knowing my daughter is showing symptoms of the same disease.....well i donno....i would not not have my daughter for anything..i love her to bits...and would lay my life on the line for her....i just hope they get me a diagnosis soon so it will help her and my grandkids..

[quinner]

well i think life is a gift.....but everyone wouldnt agree with me...and in fact ive experienced the loss of several people i knew well due to suicide...so if i could morph back to my younger days...know then what i do now if i suffered from severe depression and had a family history of it would i have kids...not on your nelly..id be totally terrified id pass the gene on and would never risk it...

now experiencing health problems similar to my mother and her family...autoimmune disease, and knowing my daughter is showing symptoms of the same disease.....well i donno....i would not not have my daughter for anything..i love her to bits...and would lay my life on the line for her....i just hope they get me a diagnosis soon so it will help her and my grandkids..

one of the greatest assets us humans have is the ability to learn.........but too much information, which in some situations can make our lives a misery.
we also have the ability to be diverse....so what is the norm....there is no norm

[Womblemum]

I do not suscribe to the "god will provide" idea. He never paid any of my bills etc! But Lily, what I do know is that life is about experience and the experience you had with your depression may be different to that experienced by your offspring...because they would have the benefit of your knowledge and ability to deal with it. You are playing god....while there is a probability your child may suffer with depression there is an almost equal chance they won't. Nothing is written in stone, so, if you want more kids away and start practicing, but, if you do not, make that decision based on firm facts not proability.

[Ballinamoe]

I do not suscribe to the "god will provide" idea. He never paid any of my bills etc! But Lily, what I do know is that life is about experience and the experience you had with your depression may be different to that experienced by your offspring...because they would have the benefit of your knowledge and ability to deal with it. You are playing god....while there is a probability your child may suffer with depression there is an almost equal chance they won't. Nothing is written in stone, so, if you want more kids away and start practicing, but, if you do not, make that decision based on firm facts not proability.

He paid mine. I robbed £20 out of the collection basket in 1986. Dont feel as guilty as yed think. lol

I worry everyday about what my lads have to face in life, but feck it, my parents faced the unknown, so did I and so will my boys. Thats life. We never got any assurances coming into this world other than the fact we will surely leave it someday. You seem to have done ok despite having depression. So go forth and multiply my child.

[KatieMorag]

He paid mine. I robbed £20 out of the collection basket in 1986. Dont feel as guilty as yed think. lol

I worry everyday about what my lads have to face in life, but feck it, my parents faced the unknown, so did I and so will my boys. Thats life. We never got any assurances coming into this world other than the fact we will surely leave it someday. You seem to have done ok despite having depression. So go forth and multiply my child.

I agree....and with many of the other replies....you could say everyone takes
a risk having a child, even if there are no known conditions in their family background..no-one knows what's looming on the horizon. And the thing with
depression is that there are probably many causes, not only genetic. If everyone paused to consider "what ifs" when embarking on a pregnancy, and based their decision on the worst possible scanario, no-one would ever have kids.

[Lily of Ulster]

well i think life is a gift.....but everyone wouldnt agree with me...and in fact ive experienced the loss of several people i knew well due to suicide...so if i could morph back to my younger days...know then what i do now if i suffered from severe depression and had a family history of it would i have kids...not on your nelly..id be totally terrified id pass the gene on and would never risk it...

now experiencing health problems similar to my mother and her family...autoimmune disease, and knowing my daughter is showing symptoms of the same disease.....well i donno....i would not not have my daughter for anything..i love her to bits...and would lay my life on the line for her....i just hope they get me a diagnosis soon so it will help her and my grandkids..

Of course, we wouldn't give up the kids we have. But you can't miss what you don't have/know, so if the kid hasn't been conceived, you can't miss it hypothetically. But you can take satisfaction in the thought that you had not contributed to the population of struggling people, or that you can contribute to the society through other activities, such as charity or raising awareness or taking care of kids who are already in this world.

[Lily of Ulster]

one of the greatest assets us humans have is the ability to learn.........but too much information, which in some situations can make our lives a misery.
we also have the ability to be diverse....so what is the norm....there is no norm

This is going to sound really morbid, but a few hundred years ago, we were healthier as a species, as people with serious medical conditions simply did not live to puberty. Now, with medicine and new techniques, people can manage their symptoms better and even have children of their own, but they are just passing damaged genes along. Not to mention, the fact that women wait longer to have kids is not good for the quality of the DNA, as women's DNA becomes fragile with years and more prone to mutation.

[KatieMorag]

I think, if i were you, I would base my decision on whether i really wanted
another child.....and how much.....rather than the moral implications....and
whether you think you'd regret it if you didn't.

[Lily of Ulster]

I agree....and with many of the other replies....you could say everyone takes
a risk having a child, even if there are no known conditions in their family background..no-one knows what's looming on the horizon. And the thing with
depression is that there are probably many causes, not only genetic. If everyone paused to consider "what ifs" when embarking on a pregnancy, and based their decision on the worst possible scanario, no-one would ever have kids.

Ya know, I wouldn't necessarily mind if more people thought twice before having kids. Medical issues aside, when I see a new baby being born into a dysfunctional and impoverished family, it really makes me wonder if it's such a "gift". And who ends up taking care of those kids? The government, of course. But that's a totally different topic.

As far as fear of the unknown goes, it's not just the fear of the unknown. It's the fear of the known as well. I know for a fact how expensive it is to raise kids, and it would be a major, major financial blow. And financial hardship is not something that's good for my mental state. For one, I'd need to find a better paying job, which means I'd never see my kids. My husband already works long hours, and there's no way for him to higher. Maybe, if we were more easy-going, balanced people, we'd reproduced. But financial troubles, plus parental responsibilities, on top of psychiatric issues on both sides - that's provoking fate.

[Ballinamoe]

I think, if i were you, I would base my decision on whether i really wanted
another child.....and how much.....rather than the moral implications....and
whether you think you'd regret it if you didn't.

Think you said it earlier Katie, we have too much information. 100 years ago we wouldnt contemplate this situation. Children wer concieved, born and died as was the whim of existance. Now we know about genetics and the possibilitys and concequences of certain matchs. Its the age of information being taken too far. Ask a person with Down Syndrome would they rather his/her parents had taken the decision not to go ahead with the pregnancy having been told the chance of the condition was high. I bet you get a very emphatic answer. Life is what it is, and will continue. I worry will my kids get work here to enable them to stay here. I worry will some idiot start a nuclear war. I worry will my child have an anurisim that will kill them on the spot. Thats the nature of existance and the chances we take to continue that existance.

[Lily of Ulster]

That's true. Too much information brings too much sorrow ;-) But like I said, 100 years ago, people did not need to worry about having to raise a special needs child. Many healthy children died, let alone kids with medical disadvantages.

[Mykidsmom]

yes...and in those times gone by..i know i would not be here right now..neither would two of my kids....or willie....so our life expectancy has definitely shot up......so when you think of it..whos to say there wont be a cure in the future for many of the things we regard as being terminal or life threatening now.........we dont lol..

i think though if i was even considering another child the last person id consult about it would be a priest lol......or even discuss it with....