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Ireland: From 1916 to the War of Independence

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  • The surprise election of Count Plunkett in February 1917 may be viewed as a protest vote against the Parliamentary Party rather than a show of support for any of the individual groups who had backed him, for at this stage, the separatist movement consisted of several diverse bodies with a variety of objectives. Within Sinn Fein itself there were moderates who, like its leader Arthur Griffith, still advocated the Dual Monarchy ideal, and others who favoured something more radical. In addition to these there was a new body, The Irish Nation League, set up in the north in response to the Irish Party's failure to deliver on Home Rule without partition. Count Plunkett himself, whose allies included Cathal Brugha and Rory O'Connor, was firmly on the radical side of the nationalist spectrum, a Republican who advocated abstentionism. His announcement after his election that he was going to abstain from Westminster worried the more cautious members of Sinn Fein, and would not have appealed to the likes of the Irish Nation League.
    In an attempt to take control of the movement, and move it forward, Plunkett convened a meeting at the Mansion House on April 19th, attended by representatives of the various political groupings and other interested parties, including members of the clergy. It was here that he launched his proposal to set up a new single party, which would be open to anyone in favour of abstentionism and complete independance. Sean Milroy, an ally of Griffith's, then put forward a counter-suggestion, whereby all the various nationalist strands should work together in a confederation.
    Although Plunkett's motion was carried, the matter was far from settled and a committee, made up of representatives from the various groups present, was set up, to further debate the issues and find a way forward. Over the next couple of months, Plunkett's new organisation - The Liberty League - set up clubs around the country, but found it could not compete with Sinn Fein, which was also establishing new branches, and which, by October, would have 1,200 clubs and a quarter of a million members. By the end of May/beginning of June, Plunkett had decided to throw in his lot with Sinn Fein, and at a meeting of the Committee, which took place at Cathal Brugha's house, it was agreed that half the Sinn Fein Council would be replaced by Plunkett's supporters, including Cathal Brugha, Rory O'Connor and Michael Collins, (who seems to have had a finger in nearly every pie at this time). They were joined by several others, including de Valera and Markievicz, upon their release from prison in June. With Arthur Griffith remaining leader for the time being, this new council would be responsible for running the party until the Convention was held at the end of October.

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    • A week before the Convention, the Council held a meeting to redraft the Constitution so that it would be palatable to all concerned, the moderates like Griffith, and those who wanted to remain true to the Proclamation, many of whom had been active in Easter Week. The main bone of contention was, of course, whether Ireland should seek republican status or independence as part of a dual monarchy, which Griffith thought would provide greater stability. After much heated discussion - during which some members walked out and had to be persuaded to come back - the matter was finally resolved when Eamon de Valera made what Tom Dillon called an "extraordinary statement": "Sinn Fein aims at securing the international recognition of Ireland as an independent Irish Republic. Having achieved that status the Irish people may by referendum freely choose their own form of government." Ambiguous though it was, de Valera's statement seemed to meet with the approval of both factions, and peace was restored.
      Following his success in brokering the peace at the meeting, de Valera met Arthur Griffith at a coffee house, where he asked Griffith to nominate him for the leadership of the party, claiming that if there was a contest he would win anyway. This was something of a bluff as although he had the support of the more militant factions in the movement, most of the party were still committed to constitutional methods and would have backed Griffith. Nevertheless Griffith agreed to stand aside and nominated de Valera for the leadership when the Convention opened on 25th October. Count Plunkett, who had also put himself forward, now withdrew and Dev was duly elected. Following a vote, Griffith was appointed Vice-President.
      Last edited by KatieMorag; 15-01-2018, 01:35 AM.

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      • Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
        I suppose we should start with the immediate aftermath, with the internments, before we get on to them being released, as their time in prison was very important.......been watching a documentary about Frongoch on youtube, some of the "acting" is a bit suspect but it's a good place to start I guess......
        Katie I watched it all..I was ignorant of Frongoch. A great training ground indeed
        today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

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        • Glad you found it informative Tony.

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          • The Sinn Fein Convention - or Ard Fheis - took place on the 25th and 26th October. It was attended by 1700 delegates, representing 1009 out of the 1200 clubs around the country. In his opening speech, Arthur Griffith outlined the party's main objectives, for Ireland to be recognised as an independent republic at the Peace Conference, after which "the Irish people may by referendum freely choose their own form of government", and for a "Constituent Assembly" to be formed. He went on to describe how the Irish people had felt betrayed by the IPP'S willingness to involve Ireland in "England's War", and likened the current British administration to that of Cromwell. He called for unity in the party, stressing that "differences on minor points must be subordinated to the great issues and responsibilities cast upon you, - these are to carry on the work for which men have lived and died in every generation, including our own, to carry out to the fullest.........the object which all Irish Nationalism aims at, the complete independence of our country."
            Griffith concluded his speech by inviting Cathal Brugha to propose the adoption of the Constitution. Brugha said: "The Constitution which I am proposing has been passed unanimously by the Sinn Fein Executive. It took us three nights to decide upon it fully and although we may have our differences we are all united on this point, that we stand henceforth for an Irish Republic."

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            • After much deliberation, with concerns being raised on such matters as the morality of physical force, the Constitution was adopted. It set out the principal objectives of the party - seeking international recognition of Ireland as an independent republic, and setting up an elected assembly - as well as proposals for the Civil Service, Irish industry, financial institutions and so on.

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              • The elections for the officers and executive also took place on the Thursday.
                To cries of "No!" Arthur Griffith announced his decision not to contest the leadership, and proposed De Valera as his replacement, applauding his "sincerity, courage and determination". Count Plunkett also withdrew from the contest, and De Valera became the new President of Sinn Fein.
                When it came to the elections for the remaining officers and the Council, Countess Markievicz objected to the nomination of Eoin McNeill, on the grounds that he had "cut the ground from under our feet" during Easter Week. Helena Molony and Kathleen Clarke backed her up, but Griffith, de Valera and Sean Milroy came out in support of McNeil and he was allowed to stand for election to the Council, though not for the more senior roles.
                The election results were announced the following day. Arthur Griffith and Fr O'Flanagan were voted joint Vice-Presidents, W.T. Cosgrave and Laurence Ginnell Honorary Treasurers and Austin Stack and Darrell Figgis Honorary Secretaries. Eoin MacNeill, despite Markievicz's objections, polled the highest in the elections to the Executive. The other places, in order of votes cast, went to Cathal Brugha, Dr Hayes, Sean Milroy, Countess Markievicz, Count Plunkett, Pierce Beaslai, Joseph McGuinness, Fionan Lynch, Harry Boland, Dr Kathleen Lynn, JJ Walsh, Joseph McDonagh, Rev. Matthew Ryan, Rev. T. Wall, Kathleen Clarke, Diarmund Lynch, David Kent, Sean T. O'Kelly, Thomas Dillon, Grace Plunkett, Sean McEntee, Ernest Blythe and Michael Collins.

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                • Friday morning continued with further detailed discussion about the organisation of the party. Then, after lunch, DeValera took the chair, and gave his opening address, in which he reiterated the aims of the party to achieve international status, and once that was gained, to allow the public to decide what form of government they wanted. On the issue of the monarchy, he said:
                  "there is no contemplation of having a monarchy or having in Ireland a monarch of the House of Windsor.......if there is to be a monarchy in this land it will be an Irish monarchy."


                  Full report of the Convention:

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                  • Originally posted by KatieMorag View Post
                    Friday morning continued with further detailed discussion about the organisation of the party. Then, after lunch, DeValera took the chair, and gave his opening address, in which he reiterated the aims of the party to achieve international status, and once that was gained, to allow the public to decide what form of government they wanted. On the issue of the monarchy, he said:
                    "there is no contemplation of having a monarchy or having in Ireland a monarch of the House of Windsor.......if there is to be a monarchy in this land it will be an Irish monarchy."


                    Full report of the Convention:
                    http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/hom...amuelsBox1_027
                    The Papal State
                    Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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                    • Plunkett's earlier convention...

                      mansion house 1917.jpg

                      Courtesy of Gerry Adams...

                      Everything is self-evident.

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                      • great stuff Cogs.......and thanks Gerry........

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                        • The Irish Convention

                          After the Lloyd George negotiations ended in failure in the Summer of 1916, the issue of Home Rule was again put on the back-burner, amidst the more pressing concerns of the terrible losses sustained at the Somme and the sinking of British merchant ships by German U-Boats. Redmond made an attempt to re-introduce the subject in October 1916, telling the House of Commons that government policy in Ireland was "inconsistent with the principles for which the Allies are fighting in Europe," blaming this for the "unhappy events" of the Spring and the "state of feeling in the country." Joe Devlin then suggested that the various Irish factions meet to try to resolve the difficulties. In December, Lloyd George became the new Prime Minister, heading up a coalition government that was more Unionist in its composition than the previous one. He told Redmond that he had "no intention presently of making any move for settlement of the Irish question." He did, however, agree to the release of the remaining untried prisoners just before Christmas.
                          Negotiations were recommenced in early 1917, and these gained momentum during the Spring due to pressure from America, who entered the war in April. The Government and the IPP were both alarmed by the success of the separatists in the Roscommon and Longford by-elections, and after the victory in South Longford Lloyd George wrote to Redmond and Carson, offering either to implement Home Rule for the 26 counties, or to hold "a convention of Irishmen of all parties for the purposes of producing a scheme of self-government." Redmond had a tough decision to make; if he could gain self-government for 26 counties the party might be redeemed in the eyes of the Irish people. On the other hand, he would be held responsible for the exclusion of the Ulster counties. He decided to opt for the convention, in the hope that if it went favourably the party would be restored to its former popular position and constitutional politics embraced again by the nationalist public. It would also, of course, present an opportunity to further negotiate the question of exclusion.
                          On 21st May Lloyd George announced that a Convention was to be held, saying that it would be "a real representation of Irish life and activity in all their leading branches", and would be an opportunity for Ireland to "try her hand at hammering out an instrument of government for her own people."
                          The composition of the Convention was announced on 11th June, and on 15th June it was announced by Bonar Law that the remaining 120 prisoners were to be released "in order that the Convention may meet in an atmosphere of harmony and goodwill."
                          Last edited by KatieMorag; 20-01-2018, 06:05 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by cogito View Post
                            Plunkett's earlier convention...

                            [ATTACH]70276[/ATTACH]

                            Courtesy of Gerry Adams...

                            https://twitter.com/gerryadamssf/sta...602245?lang=ar

                            Nice to see so many people who dreamed about a united IRELAND.....Sadly it did not happen.....
                            Here Rex!!!...Here Rex!!!.....Wuff!!!....... Wuff!!!

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                            • Many of those who were invited to the Convention had mixed feelings about it, and there was a degree of division within the various groups. On the Nationalist side, some IPP members, notably T. P. O'Connor and Stephen Gwynn, saw it as the party's last chance for survival. William O'Brien, however, turned down the two seats allocated to his All For Ireland Party. He believed that the Convention was simply too big to be successful, suggesting that a much smaller conference would be more likely to succeed. Some Ulster Unionists, also, had reservations, worried about what might be foisted upon them as a result of the Convention, but Carson persuaded them that their attendance was vital in order for their interests to be protected and to achieve a result that was acceptable to them. The Southern Unionists, who had for the most part come round to the principle of Home Rule - as long as this was within the framework of the Empire, and Ireland was committed to playing an active role in the war - saw the Convention as an opportunity to speak out against partition, which they were vehemently against as they felt it would leave them isolated. Sinn Fein turned down the five seats they'd been offered, because the concept of complete independence from Britain was not up for discussion. There were some delegates, however, who were sympathetic to the Sinn Fein viewpoint, such as the writer George W. Russell.
                              The Convention opened on 25th July at Regent House, Trinity College. It was chaired by Sir Horace Plunkett. There were 95 delegates, made up mainly of MPs and council representatives.

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                              • Good thread, Katie
                                I google because I'm not young enough to know everything.
                                Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit

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