Michael Collins

[Rashers]

Mick's death and funeral.

[Rashers]

Tom Barry describes the scene in Kilmainham Jail where he witnessed hundreds of Republican prisoners on their knees praying for Michael Collins after hearing the news he had been killed during the Civil war.

[Rashers]

Dan Breen speaks for a moment of Michael Collins.

[Bang Bang]

The Laughing Boy
by Brendan Behan

T'was on an August morning, all in the dawning hours,
I went to take the warming air, all in the Mouth of Flowers,
And there I saw a maiden, and mournful was her cry,
'Ah what will mend my broken heart, I've lost my Laughing Boy.

So strong, so wild and brave he was, I'll mourn his loss too sore,
When thinking that I'll hear the laugh or springing step no more.
Ah, cure the times and sad the loss my heart to crucify,
That an irish son with a rebel gun shot down my Laughing Boy.

Oh had he died by Pearse's side or in the GPO,
Killed by an English bullet from the rifle of the foe,
Or forcibly fed with Ashe lay dead in the dungeons of Mountjoy,
I'd have cried with pride for the way he died, my own dear Laughing Boy.

My princely love, can ageless love do more than tell to you,
Go raibh maith agat for all you tried to do,
For all you did, and would have done, my enemies to destroy,
I'll mourn your name and praise your fame, forever, my Laughing Boy.

Trust Brendan to put it all into 16 lines.

The real pity is that we had a Civil War that was, in essence, brought about by one man. And that the most base sin of all was the cause of his enmity.

Never waste jealousy on a real man: it is the imaginary man that supplants us all in the long run. ~George Bernard Shaw

[silver spoon]

thanks to all concerned for more appreciation of our history.

As a boy growing up learning our tragic history, about our great heroes who fought and died for Irish freedom, and the many betrayals that doomed many

a rising, the worst feeling I ever had was to hear about the civil war,

brother against brother, as so graphicly potrayed in the wind that shook the barley.I was so saddened by events in that film.

Now could you please tell me why Michael Collins accepted the proposal by the british,which effectifly killed off the unification of Ireland.Didn't the british promise,that if Irishmen fought for them in the first world war,that we'd be a united Ireland ?

I know that the north promised all out war if this was granted, and this influenced his momentous decision.I look forward to be informed greatly by all of you who obviously are very keen historians.

[Bang Bang]

Michael Collins (1890-1922), Irish revolutionary and chairman of Provisional Government; was born on 16 October 1890 at Woodfield, Clonakilty, Co. Cork. Collins’ father, a small farmer, was sixty years old when he married twenty-three year old Marianne O’Brien. Collins was the youngest of eight children. His father instilled in Collins a sense of nationalism and taught him patriotic ballads and poems. He attended national school at Lissavaird. His schoolmaster Denis Lyons and blacksmith James Santry who were active members of the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB) also influenced him. From there Collins went to Clonakilty Secondary School and studied for the British Postal Service. He worked briefly for his brother-in-law who owned the newspaper West Cork People. The local policemen described the Collins family of Woodfiled as ‘brainy’, ‘disloyal’, and ‘dangerous’. At the age of sixteen, Collins went to London and worked as a clerk in the Post Office before taking a job with an accounting firm in 1910. Collins later took up employment at a stockbroker’s office and in 1914, he moved again, to the bills department of an American Bank. Collins lived with his sister Hannie and moved in largely Irish circle while in London. He was a member of Sinn Féin by 1908 and he joined the IRB in 1909. He was also elected secretary to the Gaelic League and the Gaelic Athletic Association. Collins strongly believed that Irish Independence could only be achieved by physical force. In 1914 he became and Irish Volunteer and in the same year, he was appointed treasurer of the IRB for southern England, and became privy to its plans for a rising in 1916.

The introduction of conscription in Britain in January 1916 forced Collins to return to Dublin. His organisational talents were extremely valuable as preparations were made for a rebellion. His financial skills were also developed in the accountancy firm of Craig Gardiner. Collins spent much of his time at the Volunteer training camps. During the Easter Rising he was second in command to Joseph Mary Plunkett in the General Post Office in Dublin. Collins did not take part in the fighting. After the general surrender he was not considered dangerous enough to be court-martialled. Following the Rising, Collins, as a prisoner of war was sent to Stafford (England) and to Frongoch (Wales) where his magnetic qualities as leader emerged. Upon his release in December 1916 he became a prominent member in Sinn Féin. As director of the Volunteer movement, he drafted a new Irish constitution. Collins was elected to the Supreme Council of the IRB; he was by now an important figure in every major Republican group. Along with Cathal Brugha and Éamon de Valera, Michael Collins emerged as one of the most influential republican leaders in Ireland.

Following Sinn Féin’s victory in the 1918 General Election Collins was elected to the first Dáil for Cork South and for Tyrone, he was appointed Minister of Home Affairs and in April 1919 Minister for Finance. In the latter function he organised the Dáil loans, which financed the republicans’ alternative government. Collins and Harry Boland were the masterminds behind de Valera’s dramatic escape from Lincoln Prison in February 1919. During the War of Independence (1919-1921), he organised the supply of weapons and developed an intelligence system to produce information about military plans. Collins became the chief organiser of the British resistance campaign in Ireland. He, allegedly, had his own network of spies in Dublin Castle and other government offices. He also had a ‘Squad’ otherwise known as the ‘Twelve Apostles’ a group of specially trained gunmen, who were employed on a permanent basis and were salaried. As the War of Independence raged, Collins set up the GHQ of the IRA to replace the Volunteer Executive. On 21 November 1920, Collins’s Squad assassinated fourteen British officers, effectively destroying the British secret service in Ireland. In reprisal, the Black and Tans fired on a crowd watching a football match at Croke Park. Twelve people were killed and the day became known as ‘Bloody Sunday’. Collins’s authority and influence were felt at every level of the national resistance movement. The British Government recognised this and placed a £10,000 reward on his head, but Collins was never captured.

During this period Collins and his close friend Harry Boland, MP for Roscommon, vied for the affection of Kitty Kiernan. From the latter half of 1921 until his death, Collins and Kiernan exchanged more than three hundred love letters. In May of 1921, the IRA set fire to James Gandon’s 18th century Custom House. Its destruction was planned by Oscar Traynor, commanding officer of the Dublin Brigade of the IRA, at the suggestion of de Valera. The plan to destroy the 18th century masterpiece was opposed by Collins, but de Valera argued that the loss of public records would seriously compromise the working of the civil service. The building burned for nearly eight days and was badly damaged. Five IRA volunteers were killed and 80 wounded in the subsequent gun-battle; casualties to Crown forces were not revealed. Compromise was inevitable. The IRA was desperately short of men and weapons, and the British were completely demoralised with public opinion mounting against the continued repression. A truce was finally agreed on 11 July 1921, and Collins was chosen as one of the Irish delegates to negotiate an Anglo-Irish Treaty. Following lengthy debates the Treaty was signed on the 6 December 1921. Collins considered the Treaty the only means towards obtaining a 32 county republic and signed it with ‘great reluctance’. He subsequently fell into a mood of deep depression and wrote to a close friend

‘…I tell you this—early this morning I signed my own death warrant ...’
Following ratification of the Treaty, there was deep dissatisfaction and resentment and the government split into pro-Treaty and anti-Treaty camps. The main burden of responsibility fell on Collins, as Chairman of the Provisional Government and Minister for Finance in the Dáil government. Taking over from the British would be no easy task and successfully carrying out government functions was difficult, owing to the growing state of anarchy in the country. A vicious civil war (1922-23) followed between the pro-Treaty Free State forces and the anti-Treaty group led by de Valera. Collins was Commander in Chief of the pro-Treaty army. The Civil War was even more vicious than the War of Independence, pitting brother against brother, friend against friend. On the 22 August 1922, during an inspection tour of the south, Collins’s convoy was ambushed at Béal na mBláth near Macroom in Co. Cork. He was shot in the head and died almost immediately. He was only thirty-two years old. His funeral was held on 28 August and the Irish Independent reported on the:

‘Greatest pageant of sorrow ever seen in Dublin: a cortège three miles long.’
An estimated 300,000 people lined the streets of the capital as the funeral procession wound its way to Glasnevin Cemetery. General Richard Mulcahy, commander in chief of the Free State army, gave the oration at Glasnevin Cemetery and referred to Collins as ‘the fallen leader, a great hero and a great legend’. Collins’ death was even acknowledged by Lloyd George and James Craig described it as ‘a terrible loss’. Collins, ‘the Big Fellow’, had his reputation further enhanced by youthful martyrdom. He became for many the ultimate symbol of revolution; for others he was the ultimate pragmatist. Many biographies and memoirs have been written and Neil Jordan’s feature film Michael Collins (1996) ensured his contemporary iconic status.

[Capt Patch]

"Now could you please tell me why Michael Collins accepted the proposal by the british,which effectifly killed off the unification of Ireland.Didn't the british promise,that if Irishmen fought for them in the first world war,that we'd be a united Ireland ?"

Rashers, if you can lay your hands on the book "Peace by Ordeal" by Frank Pakenham, 1st publishe in 1935, based on papers by both sides it will give you the tools to make up your own mind as to why.

My understanding is that the very experienced British negotiating team did their homework on the Irish delegation and by subterfuge put Collins and Griffith under extreme pressure with the treat of "immediate war" should they not sign the treaty at once. Collins and Griffith seeing that what they agreed to would be the very best that they could get AT THAT TIME and so signed with a view of A) keeping the peace and B) lead to eventual independence.

The other three in the delegation did not agree with Griffith and Collins and don't forget that Dev could have had the balls to appear at the final negotiations but for reasons best known to himself (he mainly felt that the distance from Dublin to London would give them space to think) decided not to go. There's a lot more to the story but no matter which way I look at it I feel that Collins and Griffith were hung out to dry ! The Irish Parliament voted to accept the treaty but Cathal Bruagha and Oscar Trainor (I think it was) decided that it was the whole 36 counties or nothing. The Northern Unionists had also a huge influence on proceedings.

Anyway grab hold of the book from yer local library and have one of the best reads of yer life.

[Capt Patch]

Sorry Silverspoon, it was your post not Rashers. mea culpa

[The Hud]

"Now could you please tell me why Michael Collins accepted the proposal by the british,which effectifly killed off the unification of Ireland.Didn't the british promise,that if Irishmen fought for them in the first world war,that we'd be a united Ireland ?"

Rashers, if you can lay your hands on the book "Peace by Ordeal" by Frank Pakenham, 1st publishe in 1935, based on papers by both sides it will give you the tools to make up your own mind as to why.

My understanding is that the very experienced British negotiating team did their homework on the Irish delegation and by subterfuge put Collins and Griffith under extreme pressure with the treat of "immediate war" should they not sign the treaty at once. Collins and Griffith seeing that what they agreed to would be the very best that they could get AT THAT TIME and so signed with a view of A) keeping the peace and B) lead to eventual independence.

The other three in the delegation did not agree with Griffith and Collins and don't forget that Dev could have had the balls to appear at the final negotiations but for reasons best known to himself (he mainly felt that the distance from Dublin to London would give them space to think) decided not to go. There's a lot more to the story but no matter which way I look at it I feel that Collins and Griffith were hung out to dry ! The Irish Parliament voted to accept the treaty but Cathal Bruagha and Oscar Trainor (I think it was) decided that it was the whole 36 counties or nothing. The Northern Unionists had also a huge influence on proceedings.

Anyway grab hold of the book from yer local library and have one of the best reads of yer life.

Hi Capt
It has been my understanding since I was a young lad, that the reason Dev never went to London, was to ensure that what actualy happened would not happen. In other words he knew that they would be up against very skillful and experienced politicians, while they themselves were new to the game . As I understand it Dev felt that if he was not present they could not be bullied into anything, no final signing could take place without consultation with Dublin Collins was fully aware of this but still signed. I might add this is a ploy used by world leaders in important negotiations up to this day.

[Capt Patch]

Hi ye Hud, you are right of course but when push came to shove he was not there. I'll have to read again the section which describes the few days between the last Collins, Griffith, Dev et al meeting and the actual signing.

[Bang Bang]

Hi Capt
It has been my understanding since I was a young lad, that the reason Dev never went to London, was to ensure that what actualy happened would not happen. In other words he knew that they would be up against very skillful and experienced politicians, while they themselves were new to the game . As I understand it Dev felt that if he was not present they could not be bullied into anything, no final signing could take place without consultation with Dublin Collins was fully aware of this but still signed. I might add this is a ploy used by world leaders in important negotiations up to this day.

I am afraid that the fact that De Valera described the party who went to discuss the terms as "Plenepotentiaries" shows the man's devious mind. By implication, anything that they signed was AS IF he had also signed.

Michael Collins made desperate efforts to contact De Valera by phone before the fatal signing. "The Long Fellow" could not be contacted.

It is clear what De Valera wanted, and got. A situation where, if the Irish Forces and people were happy with what was agreed, he could take the kudos for having made these arrangements.

Should the people reject the Treaty, he could point out that it was not him who was responsible. Collins did not want to be responsible for the City and country to be subjected to attacks by Tanks, Aircraft and heavy artillary - all of which were threatened by the British Government.

Eamon De Valera was a man who always looked after his own skin first. When he was fund-raising in the United States and angered the powerful members of the IRB there, ( to the extent that they were on the verge of severing relationships with their IRA colleagues ), a number of the leading members here prevailed upon Michael Collins to renounce De Valera and take over titular command of the forces in the country.

Collin's steadfast loyalty in "The Chief", would not allow him to do that. Instead, he sent his best friend and comrade, Harry Boland, to the States to "Put the Long Fella right".

De Valera succeeded in poisoning Boland's mind against Collins during that period.

If De Valera had acted like a man, the Civil War would probably never have happened.

Footnote: On the 2nd of September, 1975, when the gun-carriage carrying his remains passed me, I turned my back. That is what he did on Michael Collins.

[spudseamus]

Footnote: On the 2nd of September, 1975, when the gun-carriage carrying his remains passed me, I turned my back. That is what he did on Michael Collins.


I never knew that!!!

[Bang Bang]

Footnote: On the 2nd of September, 1975, when the gun-carriage carrying his remains passed me, I turned my back. That is what he did on Michael Collins.


I never knew that!!!

I may have misled you on the above, My wording was ambiguous, I'm afraid Spud.

I did not mean that De Valera literally turned his back as Mick's cortege passed him.

I meant that I turned my back as a gesture of disgust for the manner in which "The Long Fella" had conducted the whole Treaty Affair.

There are people with totally different views of De Valera. Some also considered him to be a great man. To set my personal record straight.

My Father fought in the Anti Treaty forces in 1922 in the Four Courts (and for years after) My Uncle, whose name I bear, was a member of the Free State Army during that same period.

Bearing in mind that, by 1944, the news of much of the terrible atrocities carried out by Hitler's Nazis was well known, what do you think of a man who could make the following broadcast?

[spudseamus]

ahh ok Bang Bang im with ya now!! yeah ok but the British knew about the camps in 1939 !! they along with others had the chance to save innumerable lives before the invasion of Poland and they all did nothing!! so auld Dev was in good company huh! I never liked the man !! does it show?

[Bang Bang]

QUOTE=spudseamus;20713]ahh ok Bang Bang im with ya now!! yeah ok but the British knew about the camps in 1939 !! they along with others had the chance to save innumerable lives before the invasion of Poland and they all did nothing!! so auld Dev was in good company huh! I never liked the man !! does it show? [/QUOTE]

Well, the Brits were the first to introduce 'Concentration Camps'..

During the Second Boer War they were responsible for unbelievable atrocities themselves.

Concentration camps
-------------------------
They deported all women & children to concentration camps, with only the clothes they had on them. No blankets, no food, no firewood. Boers were (are) expert survivalists and they could cure any injury / disease with traditional medicines made form plants, herbs etc. These medicines / plants were destroyed.

Now the South African highlands are at 1500 meters above sea level. Spend 2 nights in the open in winter and you’re guaranteed to get pneumonia. Spend 2 days in the open in summer and you’re guaranteed to get sunstroke. You need a thick tarpaulin (canvas) tent to protect you from extreme day/night temperatures. Britain destroyed all the Boer tents – concentration camps were made up of British tents made from linen cloth, practically useless against African weather elements.

Women who escaped were herded in the fields and shot with cannons.

In the camps they were literally starved to death. A mother and her children had to live for a week on the standard daily rations of one British soldier. When they got ill, the British doctors gave a bottle of British medicine to the mother, which she should give to the children. The children invariably died – after their death the mother was informed that the medicine was actually poison, and that she in fact poisoned her own children.

Today more than 100 years later there is in Boer culture still a well-known cradle song called “Siembamba” about a mother that unknowingly killed her own baby.

They were given “coffee” made from roasted & ground acorns instead of coffee beans. This killed many children within hours of drinking it.

The sugar they were given contained crushed glass. By the time you realise what you ate / drank it’s too late. The glass particles are heavy and sink to the bottom of the stomach, so chances of vomiting it out are slim. Movement of the stomach and intestines, or even natual movement of the upper body, makes them cut through the intestines. Intestine or stomach contents leak into the stomach cavity, and begins to rot there, causing a horrible, slow death.

At first glance the pictures below might suggest they were taken in Nazi Concentration Camps, instead they are from thirty years before in South Africa![/I][/I][/I]