Incest

[joan mack]

Didn't seem to be any reason. The three families I know were Italian and wanted to marry to keep the money in the family. They did of course meet and I would say were encouraged to marry. Thank God all three have no problems Kids are fine, In fact I have heard it said it is much more of a probable for second cousins to marry

[Vico2]

Didn't seem to be any reason. The three families I know were Italian and wanted to marry to keep the money in the family. They did of course meet and I would say were encouraged to marry. Thank God all three have no problems Kids are fine, In fact I have heard it said it is much more of a probable for second cousins to marry

There is more of a risk medically if first cousins marry. What I recall learning back in the day in school was that the church would marry third cousins, but not first or second. I am glad to hear the kids are ok but that does not mean the next generation will be. It is doubling up on all the genes and predispositions for any kind of illness which runs in the family

[joan mack]

Well we do have kids sired by fathers of daughters, I know of one. He seems fine and he has married and his kids are also fine, father did end up going to jail. its a strange world and God only knows how often this happened in the past when people were not as curious

[cogito]

In Ireland...

• Father / daughter sexual relationships are illegal (incest) - that includes consenting adults. The penalty for incest is up to ten years - and up to life imprisonment if a child below the age of consent is involved.

• There's no law prohibiting marriage or sexual relationships between first cousins in Ireland,

[joan mack]

Thought so Cogs As I said I know of three couples so I knew it had to be legal

[cogito]

Thought so Cogs As I said I know of three couples so I knew it had to be legal

There have been moves in Ireland in recent years to allow incest between adult brothers and sisters.

Personally. provided no children are being procreated, I don't have an issue with it. Am I missing anything - or are there good reasons for keeping such relationships in the criminal sphere ?

[KatieMorag]

There have been moves in Ireland in recent years to allow incest between adult brothers and sisters.

Personally. provided no children are being procreated, I don't have an issue with it. Am I missing anything - or are there good reasons for keeping such relationships in the criminal sphere ?

Yes, there are. Unless it's a situation where the couple haven't been brought up together and then meet as adults
and feel a connection - which sometimes happens- any such relationships have to be viewed as possibly abusive. Seriously, would you be happy if you found out your kids were having sex with each other? Surely you'd find that rather unsavoury? Actually I'm quite shocked that you wouldn't have an issue with it.

[cogito]

Yes, there are. Unless it's a situation where the couple haven't been brought up together and then meet as adults
and feel a connection - which sometimes happens- any such relationships have to be viewed as possibly abusive. Seriously, would you be happy if you found out your kids were having sex with each other? Surely you'd find that rather unsavoury? Actually I'm quite shocked that you wouldn't have an issue with it.

All relationships are 'possibly abusive'.

No... I wouldn't be 'happy', nor would any parent to see their kids in a relationship with each other.

But let's keep this in context - I'm talking about a predominantly Irish rural context where siblings middle aged and older cohabitate under the same roof - and in some situations end up living the life of a married couple - albeit breaching all social taboos in doing so.

Yes, there may be social and ethical questions to address - but it should be taking out of the criminal jurisdiction in my opinion. That's all.

[KatieMorag]

Well when you put it like that.....does that happen a lot then, in rural communities, and if so are there prosecutions? How would the authorities even know about it?

[KatieMorag]

Coincidentally, I came across this the other day. It's a study that reveals that a great number of people in England and Wales, born between the 1930s and 1960s,were actually the result of incest:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/inbreeding-study-uk-dna-university-queensland-biobank-genes-incest-a9091561.html

[cogito]

Well when you put it like that.....does that happen a lot then, in rural communities, and if so are there prosecutions? How would the authorities even know about it?

I'm not aware of any prosecutions relating to consenting adults in my lifetime - but stand to be corrected.

There is a belief that it's more widespread than acknowledged officially - but it's not the type of thing to be openly discussed in any community. I doubt if it's just an Irish thing either - I'd imagine it features as part of hidden rural life all over Europe.

Catholic Ireland is not impressed by recent moves towards decriminilisation...

https://www.catholicireland.net/ireland-discusses-adult-incest-age-consent/

[KatieMorag]

Well if it's never prosecuted, why does it need de-criminalising? Mightn't that lead to more grey areas around the issue of consent? For example if a brother was abusing his sister. Sexual assault and rape is under-reported as it is and saying it's okay for siblings to have sex might make the situation worse.

[cogito]

Well if it's never prosecuted, why does it need de-criminalising? Mightn't that lead to more grey areas around the issue of consent? For example if a brother was abusing his sister. Sexual assault and rape is under-reported as it is and saying it's okay for siblings to have sex might make the situation worse.

All of the above are criminal offences. People are going to jail for them and rightly so.

Rape and sexual assault are crimes in any scenario - can't see where the grey area is in that.

[KatieMorag]

I probably put it wrongly with grey areas - what I meant was that in a lot of rape cases it's a case of the victim's word against that of the perpetrator - there's been a lot of such cases in the media in recent years. I would be concerned that legalising sex between siblings might make abuse more difficult to prove.

[cogito]

The legalistic side of this might drag on for years - there's no one size fits all for these scenarios.

Incest is repugnant to all humans for sound biological reasons - mainly to protect our gene pool and for this reason it's logical for society to discourage it.

On the other hand, life is short. All humans yearn engagement, affection and sometimes, intimacy. I find it hard to justify a state holding criminal sanctions against a small minority of siblings who turn to each other when there's no obvious risk of pregnancy at advanced age.

Would be interesting to see how other countries outside Ireland approach the same issues....