Old B&W Photos of Dublin - Part 2

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Never used one in the Green........Nor, anywhere else for that matter..I sits on my own arse....

Well a little birdie told me it was fat enough. Whatever floats yer boat.

[quinner]

Well a little birdie told me it was fat enough. Whatever floats yer boat.

What excess I carry.....arrives before me....

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

For Martinb...concerning the figure overlooking Patrick's Close..

having looked over various maps and street directories I came to the conclusion ..(I could be right or wrong,)...that the figure is over a tavern at 36 Patrick Street owned at first by John and James Tunney ....
they then became insolvent and the tavern went to Francis Mc Gowan ..

the photo is confusing at first because its Patrick Street that is in front of the viewer ....
and Patrick Close North starts at the advertisements and continues to the right

if the photographer had stepped backwards some distance you would have had the front of Saint Patrick's Cathredal showing to the right of photo..(as you view it)

that wall with the advertising ..and the buildings after it ..were torn down ..and the park next to the Cathedral was built over it

here are some of the references I used
1 blow up photo of Patrick's Close street sign
2 I used Limerick alley as a focussing point
3 directory showing Limerick alley and 36 Patrick Street in

Bit of a snag with that reckoning JD.

Firstly the pic in question clearly shows Patricks Close....Your map is of 1798, and Pats Close has not been created by the looks of it, so to take a fix from that map can't be too accurate.

2. Looking at your directory cutting it looks like we have a tobacconist at the top of the list, though we can't see the number.

3. The original pic was taken as I said by Robert French, lawrence took French on as his chief photographer between 1865 and when he retired in 1914.....lawrence himself retired in 1916, both were around 70 years old on retirement.

4. I think the pic was taken closer to 1914 than the other end of the timeframe..... and we have a tobacconist listed at No 28 Patrick Street named Alicia Byrne in the 1911 census.

5. Old map showing Patrick's Close and surrounding area... The wall at Pats Close in the pic fits in ok, but where does the church fit in ?.

[quinner]

Bit of a snag with that reckoning JD.

Firstly the pic in question clearly shows Patricks Close....Your map is of 1798, and Pats Close has not been created by the looks of it, so to take a fix from that map can't be too accurate.

2. Looking at your directory cutting it looks like we have a tobacconist at the top of the list, though we can't see the number.

3. The original pic was taken as I said by Robert French, lawrence took French on as his chief photographer between 1865 and when he retired in 1914.....lawrence himself retired in 1916, both were around 70 years old on retirement.

4. I think the pic was taken closer to 1914 than the other end of the timeframe..... and we have a tobacconist listed at No 28 Patrick Street named Alicia Byrne in the 1911 census.

5. Old map showing Patrick's Close and surrounding area... The wall at Pats Close in the pic fits in ok, but where does the church fit in ?.

St Patricks Close North is the one in question I believe.....From Canon Street through the Lodge to Patrick Street.....That disappeared when the park was created about 1900...

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

St Patricks Close North is the one in question I believe.....From Canon Street through the Lodge to Patrick Street.....That disappeared when the park was created about 1900...

Ahh so that's the one showing on my map eh ?

[quinner]

Ahh so that's the one showing on my map eh ?

Yes, I believe so....The other one is cathedral Lane...(JAYSUS, HERE WE GO AGAIN)..LOL

[quinner]

Yes, I believe so....The other one is cathedral Lane...(JAYSUS, HERE WE GO AGAIN)..LOL

Could be 28...Patrick Rogers Tobacconists......?

[quinner]

Bit of a snag with that reckoning JD.

Firstly the pic in question clearly shows Patricks Close....Your map is of 1798, and Pats Close has not been created by the looks of it, so to take a fix from that map can't be too accurate.

2. Looking at your directory cutting it looks like we have a tobacconist at the top of the list, though we can't see the number.

3. The original pic was taken as I said by Robert French, lawrence took French on as his chief photographer between 1865 and when he retired in 1914.....lawrence himself retired in 1916, both were around 70 years old on retirement.

4. I think the pic was taken closer to 1914 than the other end of the timeframe..... and we have a tobacconist listed at No 28 Patrick Street named Alicia Byrne in the 1911 census.

5. Old map showing Patrick's Close and surrounding area... The wall at Pats Close in the pic fits in ok, but where does the church fit in ?.

28 would be where the 'C' is in Patrick Street.....where the 'dog leg' is in the Street.....

[john doran]

Bit of a snag with that reckoning JD.

Firstly the pic in question clearly shows Patricks Close....Your map is of 1798, and Pats Close has not been created by the looks of it, so to take a fix from that map can't be too accurate.

2. Looking at your directory cutting it looks like we have a tobacconist at the top of the list, though we can't see the number.

3. The original pic was taken as I said by Robert French, lawrence took French on as his chief photographer between 1865 and when he retired in 1914.....lawrence himself retired in 1916, both were around 70 years old on retirement.

4. I think the pic was taken closer to 1914 than the other end of the timeframe..... and we have a tobacconist listed at No 28 Patrick Street named Alicia Byrne in the 1911 census.

5. Old map showing Patrick's Close and surrounding area... The wall at Pats Close in the pic fits in ok, but where does the church fit in ?.

here is an earlier map with both Patrick,s Closes...north and south showing
Patrick,s Close North continued on to Canon St

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

here is an earlier map with both Patrick,s Closes...north and south showing Patrick,s Close North continued on to Canon St

Thanks JD, got a bit carried away at one in the morn. That said if 28 is where Joe said it was, then we've found our tobacconist that could well have changed hands tween Patrick Rodgers and Alicia Byrne. Good map btw.

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

28 would be where the 'C' is in Patrick Street.....where the 'dog leg' is in the Street.....

That fits in just right Q.

[john doran]

good morning...
if you knew where Balls Court was..or McGowans pub..in relation to the front of the Catherdral I could narrow things down further..thanks

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

Beat Club, Huband Bridge, '64.

[john doran]

Thanks JD, got a bit carried away at one in the morn. That said if 28 is where Joe said it was, then we've found our tobacconist that could well have changed hands tween Patrick Rodgers and Alicia Byrne. Good map btw.

late nights eh...lol
when I looked at the photo and thinking I knew where the location was I looked for a map to aid with visualisation of the area
the old map was the only one I could find to illustrate the area using Limerick Alley as a pointer
The photo would have to be pre1901 as that is when work started on the Patrick,s Park..and the buildings would have been demolished by then
To imagine where the photographer was standing....if only he had had the auld decency to have stepped back a few feet you would have seen the front of the Cathedral at his right elbow
number 28 & 29 was occupied first by Edward Reynolds tobacconist and tallow chandler
then ..28 only.. Patrick Rodgers
then 28 only Mrs Byrne Tobacconist....

[DAMNTHEWEATHER]

[QUOTE]

Could be 28...Patrick Rogers Tobacconists......?

That's it Joe, well spotted.

good morning...
if you knew where Balls Court was..or McGowans pub..in relation to the front of the Catherdral I could narrow things down further..thanks

Between Hanover Lane and Limerick Alley are numbers 20 - 29, and at No 28 in 1863, is Tobacconist Patrick Rogers, who later gives way to Alicia Byrne (1911) at the same premises.

In that street at the same time as Ms Byrne, there is a Margaret McGrath Cigar Maker. At No 40 is Cassidy, a Tobacco Spinner and at No 47 another Cigar Maker, are they employed by the tobacconist or is it a coincidence.